Save the Women!


Is veiling a free choice?

Posted in honour killing,Islam,religion,Saudi Arabia,women by Save the Women! on January 28, 2010

I am writing this post in response to a post on ”American Bedu”.  The very best blog for those who wish to learn about saudi arabia.

(apart from mine 😉 )

However diplomatic or politically correct you may want to put it. The fact is that there is no free choice for women in saudi arabia. Women are legally minors all their life. All women are always under full control of a man. choice is only possible where it is given.

And what of the mind? Freedom of thinking is a point too. I do not think many women in saudi can think freely.  From a very young age, or at least after puberty, girls are treated as less than boys. Baby girls will get no attention from saudi women, but if you have a baby boy they will swarm around you and admire him. Some people don’t even count girl children. If you ask them how many children they have they only count the boy children.
Girls are told from childhood on that their body is ”Awrah”  shameful and forbidden. You have to imagine this: being shamed all your life that your body and face are a source of shame to your family.
they are also told that if they do not veil they will burn in hell. And they are very good about really scaring the little girls about all the details of torture in hell.

Islam tells men they have to do a ritual cleaning after they have touched a woman before they can pray. This equals women with black dogs and donkeys they are the same level.
They are unclean and require ritual cleaning.
I know women who truly believe that if they uncover their face it will cause mayhem and destruction all around. They have been indoctrinated that women are walking vagina’s. That’s why muslims who like women to be covered never equate leaving hijab and/or niqaab off with being ”normally dressed”. They always equate it with walking around naked and women being whores. Which is stupid.
Even eight-year old children are dressed in a black shroud because even at the tender age of 8 they are nothing but walking vaginas.

Click here for what women look like according to Islam

There is nothing romantic about veiling. It is restricting your movements and your view. You are literally cut off from the world. It is naturally insufferably hot. Imagine wearing black, often synthetic fabric in the blazing sun and very hot temperatures. Imagine having hour head and even face covered in this material. Imagine having to go shopping and carrying heavy bags, and your children while gasping for air. The niqaab also restricts your breathing, however the male shop assistant assures you it is ”perfectely breathable”.
And with all this you still need to call up the strength to fend off either the forever harassing men, or the CPVPV who complain your hands and ankles aren’t covered with thick gloves and stockings. (In Jeddah there is far more leniency)

There is absolutely no choice. Women are harrassed when fully veiled. A less than fully veiled women will be followed and abused mercilessly by large groups of men. Boys will chase the woman in cars and and make a big scene around her as if she is whoring. And don’t forget the family or the spouse. The shame of a woman’s face and body is the shame of her family. Women are told all their lives long that their face and body is a sin and a shame for the honour of their families.
Many men demand their wives veil. Even if you are a western woman, and lived and dressed normally in the west, when you come to live in saudi with your husband he may very well demand you veil. And you will have no freedom to refuse.

There are real punishments, including torture for women who do not veil. Also in other Islamic countries. Women who do not cover according to the level men think they should get acid thrown into their faces. This photo shows a woman after being beaten by the police in Iran for wearing ”inappropriate hijab”

Don’t talk about freedom for women in saudi arabia. There is no freedom for women to refuse wearing veils, but there is also no freedom to think. Thinking critically is discouraged from childhood onwards. The schools do their best to stamp out any kind of independent thinking in both girls and boys. But especially girls schools. Some schools take the girls to the morgue where the dead are being washed for burial. They are told that that is where they will end up. And if they don’t follow the rules, described as Allah’s rules, they will go to hell and be tortured for eternity. The society is bent upon breaking women’s spirits and the only thing which will save a woman is a family and father who will protect his daughters from this never-ending denigration of women.

So really. The issue of free choice doesn’t exist.
Women are both brainwashed into believing they have to veiland in case the brainwashing doesn’t take hold they are denied the freedom to not do so.

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54 Responses to 'Is veiling a free choice?'

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  1. Oum Mhmd said,

    First of all your blog is nothing like American Bedus. You as a non muslim dont even try (so it seems) to understand Islam. She is a moderate Muslim who seeks to understand (even if she doesnt agree) and give the facts of the matter.
    Did it ever occur to you that many Muslim women find relief in their religion? We are respected and adored. There are abusive men in every religion.
    To describe us as walking vaginas is disgusting, rude and vulgar, as would be expected to a woman with no hayaa, HOW DARE YOU.
    And as a non Muslim you are not allowed to be in the Arabian Penninsula as you are described as unclean by our beloved Messenger (peace be upon him).
    Your husband if a Muslim will be asked about marrying someone who disgraces his faith. Muslim men are not allowed to be married except to chaste “women of the book” that is a practicing Christian or Jew and if you were either of those you would forbid yourself to talk and act so filthy.
    I m sure his family is repulsed by you and that is why you talk so low of Muslim women.
    Why dont you get OUT OS ARABIA?
    We dont want you here

    • aerinndis said,

      Greetings, Thank you for sharing

      I was kidding which you could have know if you looked at the smiley. American Bedu is a super blog!
      I started this blog because I wanted a place where I could be as mad as I wanted to.

      My husband loves me and my blog. And he considers me perfectely clean.

      Every part of your body, including hair face and hands and eyes is awrah. It is all given a sexual importance. It is all equally shameful to show. If every inch of skin or hair will arouse a man’s penis: Then the comparison with a vagina is nothing outragious.
      I do not think that anything except a vagina is as sexual as a vagina. So I do not at all agree with this point of view. So don’t blame me for it: I did not think it up. I do not say that all parts of female anatomy are an awrah. It is other people who claim so.
      Don’t blame me for talking straight about the truth.

  2. MoQ said,

    The woman in teh first picture should be punished. Not only is she wearing blue, but you can see 2 eyes.

    I just think the entire thing with the segregation and covering women is Insanity. There is no other way to describe it. What is worse is people are getting more insane by the day and add more requirements on women.

    • aerinndis said,

      It is insanity, and it breeds insanity.

  3. Aafke said,

    Of course ”veiling” is not a free choice. As soon as you claim it is a requirement by “God” you have already taken away any kind of choice!

    And just in case women might get the shocking idea to think for themselves, there is pressure (blackmail) (force) (death threats) by family and society.

    Of course you can brainwash anybody to the point where they claim it is their ”free will” or maybe they have mental problems and really like it as a symptom of their psycological sickness, but in the end it is force.

    • aerinndis said,

      I agree it is forced. By whatever means, it is still forced.
      I loved your painting of the scream!

    • linda said,

      comment removed because of bad language and shouting


      • @Linda, greetings. Keep your comments decent and don’t shout. (kapital letters)
        I have been away from my blog for a long time. I will read your comments.
        I like for people to freely speak their minds. However, I do not like shouting or bad language. Such comments may be deleted or editted.

  4. Oum Mhmd said,

    I didn’t ask you if your husband considered you clean or not. I said our Holy Prophet called all unbelievers unclean and ordered them expelled from the Arabian Peninsula, you are not to reside in our lands.
    Since you are not a Muslim I wonder why you are so concerned with our religion?
    Please don’t be, we don’t give you or whatever you may believe in any thought at all, and you are NOT OUR HERO.
    Why don’t u stick to animal rights or whatever you were raised on.
    Or better yet why don’t you devote your time to all the single mothers that get used, abused and LEFT because there are no laws that protect a man from doing so in all Kufr countries. And we covered woman arnt only as pretty as our face and body are. We arnt judged on our ability to look attractive as every woman in the kafir society is. We are covered pearls.
    In fact just as a pearl is hidden deep in the clutches of the oyster as protection it deserves for its value, so is a Muslim woman.
    And you non Muslims have the great honor of attracting every man you (as long as you can look the part) and are similar to flies on shit!

    • aerinndis said,

      Thank you for sharing


    • Oum Mhmd –
      What you have said here is far more offensive than anything in this post. If you are an example of what a good Muslim is, then you are really doing your religion a grave disservice. What a shame that you cannot say things in a civl manner – you obviously never took debate in school.

    • Joshua said,

      I would like to point out the fact that your “Holy Prophet” is a disgusting pedophile first off, so excuse me if I don’t take anything he said from the book of violence, The Quran, with any seriousness. As a westerner I can tell you how much we pity your culture, your men cannot control themselves so you are forced to cover yourselves in a suppossed decree from God. Your religion is stuck in the backward bronze age and it’s attempting to shift our Western culture towards that when it moves here and we will not have it.

      I’m going to assume Kufr means non-muslim? You might want to look up your facts on that one, it’s called domestic abuse and there are laws against it.

      Also.. you know oysters smell like shit right? hahaha

      • aerinndis said,

        Joshua, You are in my livingroom, you are free to speak unless you use bad language and profanity. I will let this one pass, but anymore bad language and I will edit or delete.
        One can give ones opinion perfectely well while using polite language.

    • aynur said,

      “Or better yet why don’t you devote your time to all the single mothers that get used, abused and LEFT because there are no laws that protect a man from doing so in all Kufr countries.”

      You could change this to:
      “Or better yet why don’t you devote your time to all the divorced women (who no longer have custody of children) that get used, abused and LEFT because there are no laws that protect a man from doing so in all Muslim countries.”

      People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

      • emi grey said,

        hey the muslim woman is independent .she gets her mehr or as u called dowry from husband .they r free to remarry after iddah .they r not even bound to look after that man kids.but if she opts for that man is bound to pay the expenses for that.i dont know why u people call urself all literate n speak hatred while u know nothing just propaganda .its better to research from neutral sources then speak.


      • Do not be silly. You kow very well that a woman who has been married is ”used goods” and has no market value. Arab men only want virgins. And courts will not give women their freedom if they want to get out of a marriage. And in saudi arabia women cannot go to court alone. they can only go with their mahram which is their husband. unless she has strong family to support her and lots of money to pay back mahr and bribe the judge and pay blackmail money to her husband a woman has no chance of divorce.

    • linda said,

      comment removed because of bad language and shouting

      • huda said,

        I don’t know. Are you a true Christian? Because if u’re you will know that CHRISTIAN also make it compulsory to women to wear veil.It is said in BIBLE. That’s why your nun also wear veil. Owh, so you just follow the teaching you want and abandoned the rest you didn’t want. In Islam, we also believe in Jesus but not as the son of god but as one of the go’s prophet, that’s why we also read bible though some content in bible had been altered. So, are you sure you know everything about the altered Christianity you embrace now. Are you sure you already read the WHOLE BIBLE? Think u have? think again~

  5. MoQ said,

    This is very interesting, let’s just summarize the points Oum Mhmd is making:

    – We have a woman that says women are only clean if they are Muslim.
    – Non Muslims should not be in Arabic Peninsula. Yes that will work since the entire place would have been an empty poor desert without non Muslims developing the oil resources and the current governments would not be in place without financing from the British in the unification wars of AlSaud
    – Oum Mhmd does not understand that animal rights may also include her
    – A woman is a pearl that should be hidden. Bad analogy, because pearls are displayed on jewelry.

    I think the Oum here is probably not a Muslim as she is reinforcing the worst of the stereo types people have about Muslims.

    • aerinndis said,

      I think you are right

  6. Oum Mhmd said,

    MoQ

    Dude you sound likes such an ignorant FAG!
    We would prefer our land just a desert if every kafir would get out.
    Your the animal.
    And unbelievers are unclean yes both physically and spiritually

    • aerinndis said,

      Thank you for reveiling yourself.

      • Lovisa said,

        I’m pretty sure this is a white western male troll. Trying to make mulsims women look bad. Possibly a young one too… trying out his wings in the cyber world…
        Just stumbled upon your blog by the way, I really like it.


      • @ Lovisa,
        Greetings and welcome to my blog.
        I think you may be right
        my blog naturally attracts a lot of trolls!

  7. MoQ said,

    Abu Mhmd,

    You are not a woman. Very obvious from your reply.

    The anger of a crazed person!!!

    Anger is not good for you. Take it easy before you blow a blood vessel in that tiny brain of yours.


  8. Great post! I really enjoy your perspective – and I am in total agreement. Thank you for expressing what many of us cannot.

    • aerinndis said,

      Susie, I’m expressing myself under a pseudonym.
      I had to do something or explode!!

      I wish you many hijab-less years to come! 😉

      Do you know your hair will fall out if you cover it all the time?


      • I sometimes wish I blogged under a pseudonym so I could express myself wholeheartedly instead of holding back as I do much of the time. I’m no surprised to hear that hair will fall out by covering it all the time – makes sense to me!
        Keep up the good work!

  9. Hala Maksoud said,

    I used to have a great romantic attachment to Saudia until I started meeting Saudi men.

  10. Jaytoo said,

    Oum Mhmd,

    Your comments are absolutely ridiculous. If being a non Muslim disqualifies aerinndis to speak on any Islam- or Muslim related topic, then I guess since I am not a mathematician I am not qualified to state that a^2+b^2=c^2.

    You don’t have to be a member of a certain religion to state the facts just like you don’t have to have a PhD in mathematics to state an obvious and well-known mathematical truth.

    • aerinndis said,

      Nice one Jaytoo! 🙂

      But I do think visitors like uom Mhmd add to the value of my blog. Just in case some passer by thinks I am too harsh, these people prove my point with every comment they make.
      Every sneer, ever time they name all western women whores they prove my points. They prove I am not harsh but factual.

    • linda said,

      comment removed because of bad language and shouting
      and rudeness

  11. robin doyle said,

    I think that muslim men and muslim women are not equal because there do macho with women

  12. 2 Cents said,

    I wish that Saudis will at least admit that this whole veiling thing is a cultural issue not a religious one . It will still be bad , but would make it easier to come over and less likely to spread in other countries as “Islamic” .

    @ Oum Mhmd :

    Actually, Prophet Mohammed never said that non-muslims should be expelled from Arabic Peninsula . That was Bin Laden !

  13. Rola said,

    Im a women and like to open my small business but i didn’t found any support for me! but suddenly someone surprise me and give me a help it was a small loan but for me im so happy coz it was the start and the begining of my success , so coz of that im here now posting just to say so rarely to found these days person who care.


    • Conmgratulations on your good luck!
      Many Saudis are good people and generous!

  14. jimbob said,

    hmmm funny this ,i just came across this bloog by accident. let me just say that i think this is a blogthat reflects the way women are in the west.
    As a man living in the west i have noticed that a lot of women tend to leave men after they have had children. the man has no choice as society backs her up in all ways. she takes all he has and jumps to another man leaving the children in a bad mental state.

    the man is orderd to pay child support for years to come just because she feels like being with another man. there is no tolerance in this society.

    i think it stinks, atleast in the moslem world women dont do what western women do . so if wearing veils and being hot meens that familys stay together and tolerate each other as they have sworn in their wedding vowels then so be it.


    • Jimbob –
      A man SHOULD support his own children – just because he and their mother get divorced, he should still be financially responsible for his children.
      If you’ve noticed so many women having kids and then leaving the man, then certainly you have noticed that plenty of men also leave their wives for someone younger, sexier, and thinner.
      You are fooling yourself if you believe that women veiling has anything at all to do with keeping families together – that is absurd. There is so much more to marriage and your argument is weak and trivial.
      Haven’t you seen the divorce statistics here in KSA? Veiling or not veiling has absolutely nothing to do with it.

  15. aerinndis said,

    Veiling has this to do with ”families keeping together”: In societies where women are considered so bad that they have to cover their sinful form, women are also without any rights, safety, and means of independence. These societies make sure it stays that way.
    In Saudi Arabia a woman is, when all is said and done, nothing but a slave. A woman has no possibilities of making any decision about any part of her life by herself. Only if a men supports her wishes will she be enabled to act.
    So divorce is not an option for women without support of some closely related man. Only men can divorce women. And they don’t have to: men can just ”upgrade” to a younger and prettier model, while keeping other wives in the background and use them as unpaid labour to raise their kids. If a divorce does happen the man will take the kids as his property. For that reason alone, the loss of her children, very few women will want to be divorced.

    There is no utopian world where families stay together because the women veil. They stay together because women have no choice, but to stay in their miserable marriage.
    Now the men have to divorce wives once they have reached the limit of 4. Then they have to get rid of one if they want to get another ”upgrade”.

    Except of course divorce rates are quite high in saudi arabia…

  16. Justpassing by said,

    Both Iran and Saudi Arabia are a disgrace to Islam.
    Both countries use Islam to control people.

    There is nothing in Islam that says an unveiled woman should be punished.
    The poor treatment of women in Islamic countries are due to the sick male mentality in ancient Arab times which is still practiced till today.

    “Islam tells men they have to do a ritual cleaning after they have touched a woman before they can pray. This equals women with black dogs and donkeys they are the same level.
    They are unclean and require ritual cleaning.”

    I disagree here. Both men and women should clean themselves after sexual intercourse for obvious reasons. That doesn’t mean that women are not clean.
    The equality of women and black dogs are not true. This was mentioned in Bukhari (who was a misogynist) but there are Muslims who don’t believe in Bukhari books .


    • there is a difference between sex and just touching. I find this very offending.
      But then I am of the opinion that many hadith shouldbe regarded with extreme suspicion. As everybody can see that many of them contradict what is in the quran. And to me it seems that men did not like what the quran sais and think they must change it. And so they narrate a hadith which says something different.

      So you don’t like bukhari either? 🙂

      Do you ever hear of a scholar telling muslims that there are several hadith in which the prophet released women who were married against their will? Or women who just did not like their husbands? The prophet released them of their bond, or offered to do so.
      Why are these hadith never used?

  17. Snap said,

    Forgive me if I have missed IT, but exactly where in the Quran does it say a women must be covered from head to toe like a lifeless black ghost? And, why are there such varying degrees of Islam in different countries?


    • Nowhere in the Quran does it say women have to be dressed like lifeless black ghost. Veiling was not practised at that time except by elite Jewish women. Lower class women and slaves were actually forbidden to veil. As there is an injuction for women to cover their breasts it appears that many women showed their breasts like in ancient Egyptian paintings.

      Nowhere does it say that for women there is a 6th pillar: eg veiling.

      But men like women to be confined, so they make it up. Because there is no ebtter way to blackmail people into what you want them to do then saying it is ”God’s will”.

      And there are such varying degrees of Islam because religion is made p by humans to explain stuff they don’t know the answer too. And because many humans are afraid and need the feeling that there is ”some one” who looks out for them. And as people think different, and have different fears they have different religions in different parts of the globe. And so you see that even the religion which bears the same name is explained differently in different parts of the world.

      And you see that those with power and money get to put their stamp on religion and export it to other parts of the world. Which is what you see happening now with saudi wahabbism. That is at this moment being send around to world to poison any muslim society which is tolerant and deals failry with women. They want this to stop.

      • linda said,

        comment removed because of bad language and shouting

  18. your FATHER said,

    THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT that you wrote in your blog.
    have you every see the heart surgery???
    if you would see there, Doctors there wear cloth which covers their mouth, that is the extremely sensitive operation, and if a person can wear that even in that operation,
    then how can you say it becomes hurdle ??

    so stop saying this bullshit of your mind in websites just to give wrong direction to people’s thoughts…


    • The wrong thought is that veiling is a free choice. No natural living human would think of veiling themselves. It is the result of the male desire to dominate and restrict women. To that en men invent the idea that a god insists on veiling for women.
      And invent the idea that women go to hell if they don’t.
      At that moment free ”choice” has been taken away fropm women.
      But freedom, choice, and selfdetermination is exactely what Islam desires to take away from women.

    • linda said,

      comment removedbecause of bad language and shouting

  19. huda said,

    Don’t ever think u’re standing our right as muslimah coz wht u’re doing now is useless n embarrassing urself. Saying that we can’t think freely as if saying we’re stupid. Who do u think u’re mocking us like that. Veiling isn’t compulsory but it is our own ‘RIGHT’ to choose the appropriate way to cover our aurah as long it still in islamic limitation as it can b scarf. As we can see, western women are the one who should be save. I plead, please, please save them first. They’re being exploit, wearing sexy clothing just to be the eye candy to the men till causing the illness such as anorexia, plastic surgery n low self esteem. To your information, we don’t have that kind of problem. WE PROUD & VERY CONFIDENT WITH OURSELVES MORE THEN U CAN IMAGINE. Also having the very same right as men means you have to work like man,be responsible like them. Unlike us, man is the one who in charge to provide live expenses to women.

    • linda said,

      removed because of bad language and shouting

      • huda said,

        Hurm, are u okay? just doesn’t seem okay. relax. look here, i think you misunderstood me somehow. You can’t condemned us for hiding our ‘LIES’ behind a veil. In Islam, women are meant to be seen only by our husband and mahram, that doesn’t mean we’re hiding any ‘LIES’. Get that idea out of your head please. I mean we’re not being exploited for other man’s pleasure other than our own man. That’s it, i don’t really care whether u hate this idea or not.

        Lol! man isn’t slave, we women work hard too but in islam, man is supposed to work ‘HARDER’. In hereafter, man will be questioned if they didn’t give enough maintenance to women. According to the TRUE islam, women actually has many advantages over man. But just because we’re wearing veil, people see us as being oppressed though it’s not.

        About ‘HE MAKES MONEY AND I MAKE BREAD’ thing, we also do that my dear, but what i mean is that women these day too obsessed with the ‘MEN- WOMEN EQUALITY’ that it become like women should also provide the same equal responsibility as man in term of maintenance or money division after divorce.

        We must know that we already work hard giving birth, raising child and others. So, why we should work as hard as the man.

        If there exist an islam man who abandoned the wife’s need than he is the one who should be blame not the religion itself. If CHRISTIANITY has the bad guy so do the ISLAM.

        For your info, i’m not stupid and so do you. Having the ability to even think shows that we’re not stupid so don’t go around telling people stupid. WE ALL HAVE MIND TO THINK WITH INTELLECT!

  20. Lala said,

    @huda: I pity you.

    • huda said,

      Ahahha~ though so cute of you saying this, please just don’t pity me. I can take care of myself dear 🙂 A woman with high esteem doesn’t need a look. great personality is enough, you know what i mean. Take care~


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