Save the Women!


The French and faceveils

Posted in Islam,politics,women by Save the Women! on February 5, 2010

So the French have voted unanimous that facecovering is not welcome in France, and of course the Islamic world is making a huge outcry about how it and how awful it is, and how it is a violation of women’s rights bla, bla.

Why shouldn’t the French make a statement about disliking hijab and niqaab? Niqaab is oppressive and unpleasant. It is a threat to security. Why the hell should a woman be allowed to walk around in disguise while men are not allowed to keep helmets on etc?
The French still believe in the concepts of their eighteenth century revolution: Liberté, Egalité and Fraternité. It is still the guiding light of French society. And Hijab and face covering conflicts absolutely to all three of these ideals.

So I think The French have every right to ban faceveils and even hijab whenever, and where ever they want.

Just as other countries have done. Germany forbids hiding the face in some places.Holland has a law forbidding face veils in schools. Turkey has restrictions on hijab. Tunesia has laws against hijab inside state run bodies, and there is no niqaab at all in Tunesia.  Tunesia is great: in court men and women are equal, polygamy is banished, women can be judges (big thing in the Islamic world) Of course Tunesia is being branded as an evil devellish country in the Arabic media.
My point is, France is not the only, and certainly not the first country.

And I don’t buy the claim that veiling is a human right. I think not veiling is a human right too.

And I don’t buy the claim that it is religion because veiling is not in the quran. And also I don’t think that everybody should back down as some as some idiot plays ”the Religious Card” to push their preferences through. To me religion does not deserve special consideration. It deserves special suspicion.

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23 Responses to 'The French and faceveils'

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  1. Hala Maksoud said,

    I think a lot of it has to do with the sort of person behind the Hijab. I wear the Hijab ALL the time because I like it. I have almost never had any negative comments about it and I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I smile and engage with people around me in a friendly way.

    So many of the Muslim women around me act frightened and don’t smile and seem to regard every Kafir around them as a threat to their chastity. I personally think that Muslims bring many of these problems on themselves. I have tried to explain this to some and then I get branded as a slut. 😦

    Hala

    • aerinndis said,

      France is n ot saying you can’t wear hijab, they are saying you can’t wear niqaab. But Turkey and Tunesia say you can’t wear hijab in ertain places.

      Hijab can look very pretty and be elegant and fashionable and I don’t see why it should turn people off.

  2. MoQ said,

    It seems that everyone is forgetting that all the French law does is prohibit a person from hiding his/her identity. This is a reasonable law that does not stop a woman from practicing her religion. Thanks for pointing that out.

    • aerinndis said,

      Thank you for clarifying in a few simple words

  3. 2 Cents said,

    I agree.
    France as a state has every right to protect its value. Besides, Niqab is un-islamic and I’ve read that Sarkozy consulted Muslim imams before issuing this ban.

    • aerinndis said,

      I agree, niqaab is a pre-islamic custom of upperclass Jewish women. It is bidah to claim it Islamic.
      And the ban is, as far as I know, for security sensitive areas.
      And it goes for everybody. Besides, showing your face is nothing! Nowaday you get frisked! All over the place! Airports, rock-concerts, you name it! better get used to it!

      • Umm Hamza said,

        Subhanna Allah, hom much hipocresy I read here. The problem is that hiyab, means modesty, when some kinds of girls, mixed with fashion, make up, and others ….. you dont think that , the mean of that hiyab pass to be out of ” Islam”. Thats way many of we , choose the niqab. Niqab un-Islamic? proofs, please…. Men make our live miserable?…. hhhhh, the live of men that doesnt respect woman is miserable, you think if they respect it, Allah will send us to veil? They speak about progress, is that mean , women almost naked every where?…. Knowledge is so important in this life…..more in the next. So before you speak about a subject, go to the source. I am a PROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUD NIQABI.


      • The meaning of hiajb is really ”curtain” or ”cover”. The Quran says nothing more than to cover the chest and down to the knees. and not to stamp the feet in order to draw attraction to yourself. To your breasts wobbling? whatever. Covering the hair is not there. covering the face is unislamic. it was a Jewish custom for elite jewish women.
        there is nothing wrong with being naked.
        If everybody would walk around naked then men would ahve a lot less obsession with sex. the more you cover up the more men become obsessed with sex and get sexually aroused by less and less.
        until in the end they get aroused by a black garbage bag. or a black wall.

        If women were supposed to be completely coverd bt black fabric Allah would ahve made our bodies different. Women would not get ostheoporosis from lack of sunlight. they would not get babies deformed with rickest because of lack of sunlight on their skin.
        covering women is silly.

  4. Achelois said,

    I support the ban!


  5. At this stage, the law hasn’t been voted in France.
    Not yet.

    The only law we have at this stage is the islamic head scarf being forbidden at school. All children have to remove helmets, hats, caps, hoods and head scarves of any kind as they walk into the school. The girls can put on the veil after school as they walk back into the street. Many do.

    The law that has been put forward by President Nicolas Sarkozy (but hasn’t been voted by our Parliament yet) will forbid any face covering of any kind in the streets. That includes niqab and burqa but also full helmets in other circumstances than when driving, face masks in other circumstances than at carnival and parties, hoods other than at the snow etc.

    The French are debate-lovers so everyone here has their own opinion about the law. The pros and cons are generating a heated debate. That’s good. These things need to be discussed.

    The French are big on protecting liberties, this law if it passes will be a constraint. This is why we are all approaching it with caution yet none of us French people see the niqab or burqa as a sign of personal freedom – more one of oppression. We don’t see it a human right, we see it as intolerable male oppression on women.

    The views above are also my own.

    • aerinndis said,

      thank for putting up this well thought comment.
      I agree too.


  6. To go back to the “choice” made by women of wearing the niqab or burqa, let me just say that women are very good at taking in the situation imposed on them and making it their own.

    Chinese women used to be the first to defend the bandaging of their daughter’s feet : a girl with large feet would never find a husband!!! After the Chinese revolution this practice was forbidden. Mothers were very upset for their daughters – surely they would never get married ! But by the same these little girls grew up no man in his right mind wanted a girl with bandaged feet anyway.
    And no Chinese woman today regrets the time of bandaged feet.

    So frankly, when women say they voluntarily wear the veil, I’m not impressed. It just means that men manage to make their lives so miserable iIf or when they don’t wear it that yes of course, they’re better off with it and being left alone.

    But give anyone the choice and who would want to wear a heavy black long sleeve coat in the summer heat? No one in his or her right mind!

    • aerinndis said,

      Women who are circumcised also insist that their daughters get circumcised too.
      I have heard woman say: I was circumcised, so my daughter should suffer the same.
      Most girls are traumatised for life after circumcision, so you cannot take a mother seriously when she wants her daughter circumcised because she is still suffereing from psycological trauma.

      The veiling is not really a free choice. Not if you have been brought up to believe that a woman who shows her face is a whore and deserves to be raped.
      That is what people think in the Middle east.
      Veiling is not a free choice if they make you believe that you will burn in hell for ever if you do not veil. Girls are told this. New converts are told this.

      Veiling might be a free choice partially for those women who enjoy the feeling of superiority it gives them. Many women I know feel elevated and more pious
      They are free to despise women who do not veil because they believe god has elevated them far above other women.
      They believe that suffering for god makes them better. And god loves them more.

      These women will find husbands. There are many muslim men who love submissive obedient women who do not think for themselves.
      These women find solace in the enjoyment of going all berserk when some man sees a cm of the skin of their wrist. they enjoy the endless restrictions imposed on them. I think it is a masochistic thing.

  7. ayshanne said,

    Great blog! Here, however, I have some doubts. I have recently heard on the radio that a woman in Italy received a 500-euro-fine for wearing a niqaab. The media talked to her husband who said that he would not let any men see his wife’s face so from now on she would have to spend her life within the four walls of her home. Never going out. How horrible is that? I fully supported the ban but did not think it could turn against the women. What do you think?


  8. Ayshanne, if a man prevented a woman from going out, ever, that would be sequestration and in France that would be punished by the law – provided that someone knew of it in the first place or that the women cried for help, which she might not do.


  9. welcome ayshanne and nathalie.

    but on the street there is no rule for niqaab?
    that is a good remark. The effect will be that women will be locked up because nobody is to see their faces.
    but will anybody know about it? Muslims tend not to give a helping hand if a man abuses his wife. A wife is property of the man and he can do to her what he likes.
    Locking up women is not uncommon.
    So it is up to the french goverment to be vigilant in these cases.


  10. France is not the Middle East.
    In France people would be horrified if they knew a woman has been locked up. There might be some supportive secrecy in the family but there are kids to take to school, men are usually at work and don’t have time for that.

    Women usually go out at least to walk the kids to school at 8:30 and pick them up at 4:30 pm. They attend school functions etc. Teachers and social workers would end up being very suspicious of a man whose wife never appears socially anywhere.

    • ayshanne said,

      Nathalie, I’m reading Desert Children by Waris Dirie and I must say that France seems to be really progressive and effective in dealing with any violation of human rights. I know the book was published about five years ago, but even now I cannot see any similar approach to the issue of FMG in the UK. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe there are some protective measures in place, but I can’t imagine girls being forced to have a medical examination prior to their visit to Africa (or any other country of their parents’ origin where FMG is practiced) just to ensure that they come back intact – as it has already happened in France in 2005. And all that you need is to mention your trip at school. Bravo! So maybe people in France know how to deal with forced veiling and sequestration (a new word in my vocabulary – thank you). Here in the UK it doesn’t seem to work like that. Read Imam’s Daughter and you will know what I mean. I’ve met too many women who don’t speak the country’s language, are beaten and abused and have nobody to turn to, unless they want to lose their children and face a death threat for the rest of their lives. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that France might be already on a different level in dealing with such complex issues and that your opinion makes sense to me.

      Excuse my English, it’s not my mother tongue.


  11. Not in a predominately muslim neighbourhood. The fathe of a family member can take the children to school, and maybe somebody would report on the woman missing but most likely not.

    I would not know about the teachers… would depend on the school I suppose…

    • ayshanne said,

      Nathalie, I’m reading Desert Children by Waris Dirie and I must say that France seems to be really progressive and effective in dealing with any violation of human rights. I know the book was published about five years ago, but even now I cannot see any similar approach to the issue of FMG in the UK. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe there are some protective measures in place, but I can’t imagine girls being forced to have a medical examination prior to their visit to Africa (or any other country of their parents’ origin where FMG is practiced) just to ensure that they come back intact – as it has already happened in France in 2005. And all that you need is to mention your trip at school. Bravo! So maybe people in France know how to deal with forced veiling and sequestration (a new word in my vocabulary – thank you). Here in the UK it doesn’t seem to work like that. Read Imam’s Daughter and you will know what I mean. I’ve met too many women who don’t speak the country’s language, are beaten and abused and have nobody to turn to, unless they want to lose their children and face a death threat for the rest of their lives. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that France might be already on a different level in dealing with such complex issues and that your opinion makes sense to me.

      Excuse my English, it’s not my mother tongue.

      • ayshanne said,

        Excuse me for a double comment. You are right about muslim neighbourhoods as I know them, but as I commented above the situation in France may be different. More determined social workers not scared of trespassing the ‘cultural’ border established by the families they visit?


  12. Ashyanne, I’m not sure we French are so good about dealing with this issue.

    I am not all that close to Muslim circles and I may be over-optimistic in thinking that somehow an abusing husband would be uncovered. The thing is, even when social workers know about abused mothers and children, they don’t necessarily have the means to deal properly with the situation. We need more social workers to follow up on endangered families, we need more safe houses where women and children could take refuge if need be, we need more care, more action and more solutions.

    I personally feel very insecure with the whole face veil issue. I am absolutely convinced that every time a woman wears it it’s a lost battle for the women’s lib cause. I worry that they see themselves as free when they are not. I am amazed at the brainwashing it took to make them believe that conforming to a strict rule enforced by men is actually an act of freedom.


    • I só agree with the last part of your comment.
      It is a symbol of supression of women. It helps to supress women. It takes away personal identity from women. And all this is proven by how groups where women veil treat women. (not just muslim groups, but all cultural groups who want women to cover)
      Any cultural/religious group where womenare singled out for dress restrictions invariable has a lot of rules to curb womens freedom. And a lot of ”believes” which ”prove” women are inferior to men. And a lot of rules and laws which makes sure women stay in a sub-level to men.

      And when it comes to dress restrictions, I think as soon as there are these ideas about what people should wear, and that they should be forced to wear what the ruling body decrees, it is a symptom of a dysfunctional society.


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