Save the Women!


The hanging of a young girl

Posted in child abuse,Islam,religion,The Evil that Men do,women by Save the Women! on May 31, 2010

she was lonely, grew up without love, and she was only sixteen.
When religious men decided she had to die.
A death sentence for “acts incompatible with chastity”.
Her name was Atefah Rafavi Sahaaleh.

I have been thinking. I have seen how somebody got attacked on a forum because she said western women who convert to Islam are in a way traitors. To their ancestors who fought in the past for rights and equality in western countries.  To the other women who suffer in Islamic coun tires under sharia law. That  may be strong language. It was not wisely chosen.  But I agree. Western women who convert to Islam, with all they know or should know: Have an explanation to make. Questions to answer. There is much of beauty in the writings of Islam. But there is more which is ugly. There are words of equality and rights. But there is more of inequality. There is slavery. There is the abuse of women slaves. The official denouciation of women’s intellect. A woman’s testimony only counts for half a man’s. Woman have to obey men. Husbands can beat their wives.
And what about sharia law? Sharia makes a bad thing worse.
So can you answer these questions?

Did you read the Quran and hadith before you converted?
Do you understand what is said about women there?
Do you agree women are less than men?
Do you read the news?
Do you realise that in a country based on Islamic principles the women are opressed?
Have you seen them? thrown at an angry mob of men to be destroyed in a feast of hatred?
Do you agree that young girls of 8 years old can be married to 80 year old men? Or men who are diseased?
Do you agree a man can kill his wife without punishment?
Do you agree that women should be stoned for adultery?
Do you realise what Sharia law means to women?
Do you think you are safe because you are protected by the secular laws of your free country?
Do you turn away when you read or see what is done in the name of Islam to women?
Can you explain yourself?

If you were Born into an Islamic country, instead of in a free country,
This could be you.
This could be your daughter.
This is your sister!

You can see the whole documentary here:


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21 Responses to 'The hanging of a young girl'

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  1. Snap said,

    I’ve spent all afternoon reading your blog. I am definitely sickened, a lot sadder, but also wiser. I’ve added you to my blog in the hope that more people read The Evil That Men Do.

    Thanks!


  2. Hi Snap, greetings! Ehm, I\’m sorry, I have changed the name of my blog again. I’m just not settled yet. I find that the direction of my blog is changing a bit, and I am looking for the perfect theme and title.
    I love this theme.
    I think Reason over Religion is going to be the final title…
    It was only ”The evil that men do” for 1 day! 😉

  3. Justpassingby said,

    I vote in favor of the first title “Save the women ” 🙂


    • ust passing by..
      I will put up a poll as soon as I have figured out how it works.

  4. Aisha said,

    Hi. Oh no…
    I didnt read your article fully but let me re-read but i want to say before going to read.. & because i liked your blog and so interesting i want to comment on to you blog.. 😉

  5. Justpassingby said,

    I’m waiting for a convert female to answer these questions. As a Saudi Muslim girl I find myself amazed at how extreme most of them can be. It annoys me how they defend strict rules like Niqab ,sex-segregation and polygamy and It annoys more when they call Western “Kaffirs”. How can you call your country, family and friends Kaffirs ?? . I hope they realize they are not helping us in our struggle for women rights in Saudi Arabia. People here point with admiration to convert westerners as “those who found the truth” so us Saudis should shut-up and follow their leads and be thankful for living in the cradle of Islam they way it is.

    I can’t help but to think that most of them where misled by men (as usual !).


    • Just passing by,
      Some converts can be really all out. Maybe that’s why they converted in the first place. Because they are extreme persons.

      I think the writings of the Quran and the hadith are misogynist in their core. But there are passages which support women’s rights.
      The Prophet has been kind and understanding to women in several hadith. You never hear the scholars quoting those!
      I think there are enough clever saudi women to surprise the world!
      I hope you will be given the chance to prove your worth.

  6. Aaishah said,

    I am a western woman who accepted Islam. Id like to answer your questions.

    Did you read the Quran and hadith before you converted?

    I didnt convert. I accepted Islam. I did not read the entire Quran and every hadeeth before I accepted Islam because there was no need. I believed in One God with no partners so I accepted Islam.

    Do you understand what is said about women there?

    Women are lifted up in the Quran and Hadeeth. The Prophet called us “Fragile Vessels”. In the Quran Allah tells the men to deal justly with us. So yes I understand what my position is in Islam.

    Do you agree women are less than men?

    Women are not less than men. Allah says in the Quran “And the Believing men and the Believing women” The Prophet said that we were the “Twins of men”/ Clearly Women are on the same level as men when it comes to attaining goodness. However the woman is “not like the man”. We are anatomically different, physiologically different, hormonally different among other things so we are NOT like men but we are equally as perfect in our creation.
    Do you read the news?
    Yes
    Do you realise that in a country based on Islamic principles the women are opressed?

    I realise that in a country based on non Islamic principles women are far more oppressed and whats sad is they have been tricked into beliving that freedom to do as they wish is not oppression.
    Have you seen them? thrown at an angry mob of men to be destroyed in a feast of hatred?

    No never. And I doubt you have either
    Do you agree that young girls of 8 years old can be married to 80 year old men? Or men who are diseased?

    If the girl is at puberty then Islam allows the girl to be married. Would you find it easier if the woman was 20 and the man 100? Ageism is a social disease and in Islam diseased men and women are to be married to the same diseased men and women. Like for like.
    Do you agree a man can kill his wife without punishment?

    Not allowed in Islam.
    Do you agree that women should be stoned for adultery?
    As can men. If Allah allowed if who am I to dispute it
    Do you realise what Sharia law means to women?
    Yes it protects me from the laws such as coverture where all my wealth would have been absorbed by the man. I had no rights.
    Do you think you are safe because you are protected by the secular laws of your free country?

    I am safe because I am protected by my Lord
    Do you turn away when you read or see what is done in the name of Islam to women?

    I turn away frequently from the lies that are told by those who hate Islam.
    Can you explain yourself?
    I think I did.
    Have a nice day


    • Yes, you have explained yourself.
      In a weird and twisted way.
      But i consider this comment a welcome addition to my blog, so thank you very much!

      • Aaishah said,

        The only reason it is weird and twisted to you is because its reasonable and makes sense. That is the beauty of Islam when understood correctly. It does make sense.

  7. Aaishah said,

    \i didnt think you would post my reply.


    • your two comments were in moderation.
      I sometimes don’t have time for my blog for several weeks, so it might take a while before I discover this.


    • you were in moderation again. maybe you use a proxy
      there is no logic in religions thefore the want you to BELIEVE
      they do not want you to think.
      Only repeat slogans.
      You do both very well.

  8. aynur said,

    Hey, I just found your blog through American Bedu’s blog. I’d like to answer questions you posted for converts, as I coverted about 11 years ago. 🙂
    My answers won’t be exciting, and I did convert rather young (at 19).

    Did you read the Quran and hadith before you converted?
    ~I read bits and pieces. I just accepted everything on a whole, without questioning it. I thought it made sense, from what I understood.

    Do you understand what is said about women there?
    ~From what I had read before I converted, I thought everything was fine and dandy.

    Do you agree women are less than men?
    ~No. But I realize that there are many who think that. I don’t agree that women are lesser in religion, or in intellect. I actually believe women are more compassionate generally … men and women are 2 parts to a whole.

    Do you read the news?
    ~Yes, generally.

    Do you realise that in a country based on Islamic principles the women are opressed?
    ~Generally, yes. I think that things need to be overhauled (like SIS in Malaysia are trying to do) pertaining to women’s rights in a divorce and child custody … not to mention women only having the legal rights of a child in Saudi.
    You can say “well in Western countries such-and-such a thing happens to women”, but that doesn’t negate the reality of what happens elsewhere.

    Have you seen them? thrown at an angry mob of men to be destroyed in a feast of hatred?
    ~No, thank goodness.

    Do you agree that young girls of 8 years old can be married to 80 year old men? Or men who are diseased?
    ~No. I don’t care if the girl has hit puberty or not, that’s insane.

    Do you agree a man can kill his wife without punishment?
    ~No.

    Do you agree that women should be stoned for adultery?
    ~No. The Qur’an specifies 100 lashes, not stoning. Oh, that’s right, a goat ate the verses that specify stoning. Or, hadith abrogate the Qur’an. My bad.

    Do you realise what Sharia law means to women?
    ~Yes.

    Do you think you are safe because you are protected by the secular laws of your free country?
    ~Yes, as long as I stay here. :p

    Do you turn away when you read or see what is done in the name of Islam to women?
    ~I’m not sure what I can do from here.

    Can you explain yourself?
    ~Yes.


    • @Aynur, Greetings.
      Most converts never really read through all of the Quran and most of the hadith. Most women who convert are very clever in ignoring all that which makes very clear that women are inferior to men in Islam. But it is all there. In black and white. Women have to be obedient. Women will burn in hell because they are women and deficient. women will only go hell if their husbands are pleased with them. Women have to allow their husbands sex whenever they want it. If not the angels will cry and she will be cursed and go to hell. Men will get an ever lasting orgie in heaven with 72 virginal clones, as well as the pearly boys, with a penis which will never wilt. A woman’s reward is to sit by and watch it all. How cheap is that?
      Are you really looking forward to Jannah? As a woman?

      I think you do not agree with the Allah’s rule that you are deficient. And yes there are many woman’s organisation who try to improve thing for women. But they can always be overruled. Because the holy script says different.

      Stoning for adultery is in the hadith. The companions of the prophet had adulterers stonedtherefore it is Allahs will.
      And if you look at places where Islamic law rules there you see that is what’s being done.
      Stoning is barbaric. Stoning is firmly entrenched in Islam. Only countries where Islamic scholars are not all powerfull do not have stoning.

      • aynur said,

        I actually never came across the questionable hadiths until years after I converted. Then more recently realized that the hadiths weren’t written down until so long after our prophet had died. My first thought was ‘whaaaaat?!’ All of the questionable things for me are in the hadith collections … and everything you’ve listed in your comment above are from hadiths. I don’t believe the hadith are from God or even transmitted correctly in most cases.
        I’ve been told that the people who transmitted the hadiths were so “religious” that they had super memory. Plus there are hadiths with a weak chain of transmission that are not stated as such – like the hadith where is states what parts of the body (for a woman) need to be covered).
        So I guess with my beliefs it puts me outside of “mainstream Islam”, but I’m okay with that.

  9. ali said,

    Aishah, excellent comment!

  10. Alicia said,

    I am also an American convert (and I found your site through American Bedu!). I will keep your blog in my roster as a reminder of the suffering of my islamic sisters. I did read the Quran in it’s entirety before converting, but I had a very different set of background beliefs that may have enabled me to read it differently from others. I am well aware that I am only able to be a muslim in the west where I am free to practice Islam as I see fit. This saddens me as my husband is from Jordan and I would not feel safe there. I have studied much on the history of Islamic law and I am convinced that Sharia law is not islamic and does not properly represent the Quran, thus it is not God’s law. Many, of course, would say that I am not a true muslim. I converted with et awareness that many muslim men would want to kill me no matter if I converted or not. But I converted for my reasons, not to make others happy. I hope that I am able here and there to make a small difference to islam. But it is an uphill battle against so many men filled with hatred and weapons and women defeated by abuse. You are doing a good service. Islamic women must stand up to be heard and must try to change Islam as they changed Christianity and Judaism. I would hope that American Islamic women would be some of the first to do so, though I am often saddened by their lack of courage. I will begin by teaching my son to be a good islamic man; one who respects women. Insha Allah.


    • Alicia, salaam,
      I have noticed a big difference between converts from the west and muslims from the middle east. And I am sure there must be more differnce between muslims from other places, like indian muslims are very nice and there is no problem with people from other faiths so much in india.
      but the difference between western muslims and middle eastern muslims is that western muslims are not afraid to interpret religion. And read the quran all through and choose those passages which agree with them. And I often hear them say some of the nasty things in the quraan is ”metaphoric”
      You will never hear a muslim from the middle east say this: the quraan is to be taken literal at all times. There can be no considering that through the ages changes have happened to the quran. Old qurans which prove so have been found in Yemen, but as that came out the scientists were deported out of the country and the old writings are locked up or dissappeared.

      You will interpret for yourself, and make up your own mind. In the eyes of some of the most rigid fundamental believers that will make you an apostate.
      Never mind, you will never be able to please all.
      Please keep your own mind and your own ideas!
      ramadan kareem!

  11. Alicia said,

    Salaam and Ramadan Kareem,
    I thought of your blog this week as my husband and I prepared for our immigration hearing. I realized we had never picked up our islamic marriage documents (we were married islamically before our state marriage, just in case we didn’t like each other!) We ended up in unpleasantries with yet another Imam because he was so offended that I have the right to divorce my husband in our marriage contract. I have had this kind of treatment from several Imams; they care very deeply about the man’s rights and do not care at all about the woman’s. The experience brought home for me how islam may give rights to women but islamic men take them away.
    I find the way people read the Quran to be very interesting. The fundamentalists who think they are reading it literally can often be argued with on their own grounds. What they are doing is picking and choosing what they want to emphasize. After all, it literally says in the Quran that you are not to marry a woman against her will. They ignore that. It literally says that you may not kill another believer and that you may not easily judge that another is an apostate. ignored. It says men may not harass indiscreet but chaste women (let alone kill them at will!). It is very strange that people argue death is the islamic punishment for non-marital sex when the Quran says that unchaste men and women are to marry only other unchaste men and women. How do dead people marry each other? the list goes on. What else is funny, is if one takes the Quran literally, most of it is a historical document regarding people long dead and would have nothing to do with us now. Fundamentalists who claim to be reading it literally, are often reading it very metaphorically.
    I like to recommend two books to others, they are both scholarly and thus a bit hard to read but worth the effort. Speaking in God’s Name by Khaled Abou El Fadl and Believing Women in Islam by Asma Barlas. The first gives the twisted history of islamic jurisprudence. The second is a wonderful insight on reading the Quran. Barlas explains how, if one takes the Quran as a whole one cannot logically come to the misogynistic conclusions behind so much of Islamic law. In conclusion, I often ponder two stories: in one a man asks the Prophet PBUH who he should respect most, the response was :your mother,” then who? “your mother” yes, but then? “your mother.” But after my mother? “your father.” And the revelation of the hijab: Omar kept asking for the hijab, and the Prophet PBUH would not oblige. It was not until Omar began to harass the wives of the Prophet as they tried to use the bathroom that hijab was commanded. The Fundamentalists claim to follow the sunnah. Rather, I think they follow Omar. Likewise, the Christians do not like to follow Jesus who sat with women and told them to become educated by Christ himself rather than clean house but they follow Paul who insisted the women keep quiet and be educated by their husbands, if their husbands have time and feel like it.


  12. I know this post is ancient, but I stumbled across your blog while searching for material for my own, and I thought you might be interested in my answers.

    Did you read the Quran and hadith before you converted?
    As best I can recall, I’d read the entire Qur’an. Reading every hadith ever compiled would take years, but I’d read enough to familiarize myself with the evidence for various opinions on issues that were important to me, and to develop my own understanding of them.

    Do you understand what is said about women there?
    Yes. There’s nothing offensive to women in the Qur’an when you read it in a normal way, without trying to engage in the universal fundamentalist practice of word-twisting as a recreational sport. I’d found satisfactory explanations for the ahadith (plural of hadith) that bothered me before I converted, including many of the ones you mentioned in this post. I’d be happy to discuss that in more detail, if you’d like.

    Do you agree women are less than men?
    No. This view is not from Islam.

    Do you read the news?
    Yes. However, I’m not arrogant enough to presume that reading the news from several thousand miles away qualifies me as an expert on
    a country I’ve never set foot in.

    Do you realise that in a country based on Islamic principles the women are opressed?
    Oppression of women is not from Islam; therefore, a country that engages in it as a matter of policy is not based on Islamic principles. They may claim to be, but that doesn’t make it true.

    Have you seen them? thrown at an angry mob of men to be destroyed in a feast of hatred?
    I’m honestly not sure what you’re referring to here, but no – I lived in the Middle East for years and never witnessed anything of the sort. Whatever you’re talking about is not a regular event.

    Do you agree that young girls of 8 years old can be married to 80 year old men? Or men who are diseased?
    No, I don’t believe an 8-year-old has the mental capacity to enter into a marriage or any other type of contract. If an adult chooses to marry a diseased spouse, or a much older spouse, that’s their business. Any kind of forced marriage is strictly prohibited in Islam, regardless of age.

    Do you agree a man can kill his wife without punishment?
    No. This isn’t from Islam. In most cases, the punishment for murder is execution.

    Do you agree that women should be stoned for adultery?
    No. The penalty for adultery is clear in the Qur’an, and it isn’t stoning. Ahadith do not abrogate the Qur’an. Regardless of what the penalty is, it’s part of a system in which forced marriages are disallowed and a woman has the right to divorce her husband by simply going to the judge and saying “I want a divorce”. Under those conditions, there’s no good reason for adultery to occur, so it’s difficult to be sympathetic; however, it would be ridiculous, unfair, and un-Islamic to apply such a punishment to a woman who wouldn’t be in that situation (an unhappy marriage) if her Islamic rights hadn’t been violated by her father, her husband, the court system, or all of the above.

    Do you realise what Sharia law means to women?
    At the risk of sounding rude, I probably realize it better than you do. I’m not a fan of the man-made interpretations of it, if that’s what you meant by the question.

    Do you think you are safe because you are protected by the secular laws of your free country?
    Like I said, I lived in the Arab world for years, and intend to go back. That’s part of the reason I’ve chosen to blog anonymously. To be honest, though, I think encouraging people to worry about Muslim taking over the US and forcing all the women to wear burqas is nothing more than scare-mongering.

    Do you turn away when you read or see what is done in the name of Islam to women?
    Nope. You might like my blog.

    Can you explain yourself?
    I’m not sure what else you’d like me to explain, but I’d be happy to answer any questions you have.

    Best wishes for a full recovery.


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